Going Through It

Just a quick word before we start. I want to give you a head’s up that this episode deals with sexual assault. It does not contain any graphic details of actual violence, but it does deal with how one person is coping in the aftermath.

INTRO:

AMANDA NGUYEN: As a young woman of color, I’m not often taken seriously because I don’t hold the identities of someone who is powerful. Who is a decision maker. I’m often the only person of color in the room. If you still believe it, the only woman. I'm most often definitely the youngest in the room. And what that means is that people sometimes, subconsciously or not, don't take me seriously.

What I realized is that pain that I felt from people not taking me seriously or the -isms that I faced—racism, sexism, ageism—that is the cost of trailblazing. That's the cost of being first.

ANN FRIEDMAN: Amanda Nguyen is the founder of Rise, an organization that works to protect the rights of sexual assault survivors. They’ve changed the law in more than a dozen states.

This wasn’t the path Amanda was originally on. She was studying to become an astronaut. But after a traumatic experience, she faced a choice: be in court forever, or live her life and pursue her dreams. She didn’t want to choose between justice and ambition, but she also didn’t want to ignore the laws that were working against her.

I’m Ann Friedman, and this is Going Through It: a show about how hard it can be to figure out when to quit and when to keep going.

On this episode: what happens when you believe in the system, but the system just doesn’t see you?

NGUYEN: Most people don't know this, but a rape kit examination takes three to seven hours long. Mine was six hours long, so I was there overnight.

FRIEDMAN: Wow.

NGUYEN: I remember walking out, the sun was rising, and I had just gone through six hours of intensive forensic collection. You know the crime scene is your body, in a rape.

After going through six hours of that, my blood taken for toxicology reports, hair samples taken, the bruises on my body pictured... photographed, all of that. Being so drained, walking out, and I have never fully understood the definition of lonely. Holding that taxi voucher in my hand and knowing that my life is changed.

I remember opening the taxi door, going in and be like, well, where do you go from here?

FRIEDMAN: So, where did you go from there?

NGUYEN: I think one of the first phone calls that I had which was within 48 hours of me leaving the hospital with very well-intentioned local advocacy groups that told me very frankly how difficult the process of rape prosecution is. I remember the lawyers on the other end of the line saying, “We just want to give you a realistic picture. Rape trials on average take two or three years and you have every single right to try to prosecute. But know that it will consume your life if you do.” What was afforded to me, though, was a 15 year statute of limitations.

FRIEDMAN: Ok, so you have 15 years to prosecute but in practice it doesn’t work that way because your evidence, your rape kit, isn’t protected for 15 years. States like Massachusetts, which is where you lived at the same, require you to go back and say, “don’t destroy this” at regular intervals. So how often did you have to go out of your way to say, “don’t destroy my rape kit?”

NGUYEN: I mean, it was set at six months.

FRIEDMAN: Wow, every six months. What made you want to try to change that?

NGUYEN: Everyone rages in a different way. [laughs]

I had such a hard time, one, even locating where my rape kit was, where DNA evidence from my body was taken. And then, two, finding out that arbitrarily at some random deadline—six months for Massachusetts—my rape kit, untested, could be thrown away. I felt like I didn’t have equality under the law. That justice should not depend on geography.

If my rape kit is going to be destroyed and in other states they don’t do that, then that flies against equality under the law. And how can I fix that? The only avenue was to change the law.

FRIEDMAN: Which I think is so amazing because, I'm sure a lot of people have said this to you, but I think a lot of people are just like that's so unfair. I'm so sad and outraged about it. Full stop. I don't know that everyone feels like the law is something that they can personally change. How are you a person who's like, this is changeable?

NGUYEN: It comes back to a deep belief in American democracy. Enshrined in our Constitution is the idea that America is an experiment, and we are constantly in the pursuit of happiness. It was knowing that there were activists before me. That they fought for me to have certain rights. Also building upon that legacy of America being truly of the people, by the people, and for the people.

FRIEDMAN: By this point, you’d accepted a job at the State Department in the Obama administration. What did you expect to happen when you stepped on to Capitol Hill and wanted to start talking to members of Congress about this bill?

NGUYEN: I walked into Congress with the self-righteousness that these people serve me. And I think that really helped. A lot of people are nervous when they go and meet people, senators, members of Congress—because they’re on TV, they’re powerful. But it is in reminding myself that these people serve me, and that I have a deep belief in what I'm fighting for... that was my north star, a deep conviction in the civil rights that I was fighting for.

FRIEDMAN: Tell me what’s like for you walking into that Capitol building?

NGUYEN: The hallways are glorified, right? There are marble stairways, there are these huge Corinthian columns. Everything is white.

FRIEDMAN: [laughs]

NGUYEN: Literally, figuratively. All the ways it can be white. And when you walk in everybody's running around in suits, they all look important ,they all look like they're on some mission to do something. And it can be really daunting.

FRIEDMAN: So did you go into Congress with a plan or strategy? What’s the first thing you did to get the attention of lawmakers?

NGUYEN: I basically emailed all of Congress. [laughs] And people can do that! Most people don't know that, but like, all the seniors all the staffers’ emails are online, so you can just literally google it. The people to target are the decision makers. That's the Chief of Staff. That's the legislative director or legislative counsel. And those people, when we first started, would bump us down.

FRIEDMAN: What does bump us down mean?

NGUYEN: It means that they didn't meet with us. They asked an intern to meet with us instead.

FRIEDMAN: When you stood in front of them, did you have a prepared speech that you delivered, or a set of talking points?

NGUYEN: [laughs] It was so long ago! Yeah, we did have a certain set of talking points. We practiced it. It was “Hi. My name is Amanda. This is why I’m here. This is why you should care about this issue. I’m a rape survivor. This is also a smart idea for you to pass.”

Politicians literally told me that they cared about the issue but they have a political campaign to run. Or that they cared about it and sympathized, but they didn't know if their constituents branded them for that issue. So it is just, en masse, a lot of meetings talking to people who did not care about our civil rights.

The first time that I lobbied, it was six straight hours of me talking to politicians who didn't care. And I remember I went home and I cried. And I was praying, and I was just like “I just need someone to tell me that they love me because this is hard.”

The next day I woke up and did the same thing. I went back, this time to the United States Senate. And in my Uber ride to the Senate I met this man. He was the driver and he was this big, intimidating, stoic guy. He didn't really talk to me, but he saw that I was going to the Senate and asked why. When I told him my story and why I was fighting for these rights, tears welled up in his eyes. He turned to me and he said “My daughter is a rape survivor and she went through something very similar to what you went through.” And when he stopped the car, he said “Can I shake your hand? Thank you so much for fighting for my daughter. Has anyone told you that they love you today? I love you.”

When it gets tough, the civil rights are my north star, but also I hold on to these memories of meeting people who have shared with me how much this work and these civil rights mean to them.

C-SPAN CLIP of Senator Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.): I rise today to discuss the Sexual Assault Survivors’ Rights Act.

FRIEDMAN: Finally, you did get someone inside the building on your side.

C-SPAN CLIP of Senator Jeanne Shaheen (D-N.H.): Now this issue came to the attention of my office when a 24-year-old young woman, Amanda Nguyen, came and told me about her experience with this issue.

FRIEDMAN: Senator Jeanne Shaheen proposes your bill, which is called the Sexual Assault Survivors’ Bill of Rights. And this bill basically requires states to do three things for survivors: one—to give rape survivor forensic medical examination for free. Two—to protect their rape kit for 20 years. And three—to send each survivor a written notification before their rape kit is destroyed so that they know it’s gonna happen

But before that becomes a law, you have to testify in front of Congress. What was it like?

NGUYEN: You are sitting at a table. There's a mic that’s in front of you. And you're looking at a chamber of—I mean it’s quite intimidating—of high ceilings. And there are about 20 United States senators that are sitting around this U-shaped table staring down at you, literally. Staring out at you. And they are going to question you on the law that you are proposing or the law that you’ve written.

On your mic in front of you, there’s a button. You press the button in order to be heard. And then your mic goes red, it turns on. And you always address, “Thank you chair, thank you ranking member…”

C-SPAN CLIP of Amanda Nguyen: ...Thank you ranking member Feinstein. And distinguished members of the Senate Judiciary Committee. Thank you for inviting me to testify today to discuss the Sexual Assault Survivors’ Bill of Rights...

NGUYEN: And then you have five minutes to make the case for 25 million rape survivors.

C-SPAN CLIP of Amanda Nguyen: We can hold up a light to the darkest corner of human experience and allow survivors at last to be seen, to be heard, to be believed, and to be empowered. I’ve authored a first of its kind, world wide resolution of the rights of sexual assault survivors…

NGUYEN: I sat in the same seat as when he testified. I sat in the same seat as Ruth Bader Ginsburg when she testified. These seats are where laws and where history is made.

FRIEDMAN: Where were you when you found out that the first bill you wrote had actually passed?

NGUYEN: I was at Camp David.

FRIEDMAN: Explain what and where Camp David is?

NGUYEN: Oh, yeah. So Camp David is the President of the United States’ private retreat. It’s supposed to be secret, but like... Google Maps is a thing. [laughs] And at Camp David they take away your phones. That was not an ideal situation because I really needed to be plugged in, but I also, like, wanted to be at Camp David. [laughs]

FRIEDMAN: [laughs] I’m just laughing at you being like, “Ugh, it’s so hard to be at Camp David.”

NGUYEN: [laughs] Yeah, they take away your phones. And I was super, super nervous about the bill passing through the Senate. The deadline for Congress being in session was about to run out. So that day was like, do or die. It either passes, or we have to start this whole process over. It's very high stakes.

I remember walking to the bar of Camp David, Shangri-La, and seeing my portal to the outside world, which was this TV screen that had C-SPAN on. I have never been more happy to see C-SPAN on. And I was like, “Oh my god, they're about to vote on this bill and I need to figure out what's happening right now.”

I ran outside and I hijacked Golf Cart One.

FRIEDMAN: Wait sorry, is Golf Cart One the President's golf cart?!

NGUYEN: Yes. [laughs] I was like, “I need to get to the Camp David chapel” because I remember that the chaplain had a computer and a phone, so like my portals to the outside world. And I ran out of Shangri-La, hijacked Golf Cart One, and when I pressed the pedal it went backwards! [laughs]

And I remember stopping, braking really hard into a tree in front of the Camp David chapel. Running in, and the chaplain was sitting there, he was on his computer, and I was like, “Sir. You don't know me, but I'm a Christian, and I need your phone and it’s for 25 million rape survivors.” [laughs]

It was working on with computer, and calling my teammates that I ended up negotiating for the bill to be passed.

FRIEDMAN: Wait, sorry, you ended up negotiating for the bill, because all the votes weren't there? Like explain what you mean—you're actually calling them to contact additional senators while you're watching this vote?

NGUYEN: That’s right. Yeah. There was a hold, and we didn't know where that hold was coming from. We ended up being able to convince everybody unanimously to vote on it.

FRIEDMAN: The bill passed through the Senate—and this is your first big victory. How did it feel?

NGUYEN: I just remember feeling like justice has happened for me. This is the closest to justice that I'll probably ever see.

I remember my colleagues were like, “Well where do you want us to drop you off?”

And I said, “Just drop me off at the Lincoln Memorial.”

It was still light out and I remember looking across the National Mall lawn, looking past the Washington Monument to Congress where the Capitol was.

I actually stood intentionally in the same place that Martin Luther King [Jr.] had his “I Have A Dream” speech. It was the most grounding and in-tune, self-realizing moment I’ve ever had in my life.

To start off from such a place of powerlessness, I have never been more grounded than at that moment in realizing that impossible is just an opinion.

OUTRO:

FRIEDMAN: Amanda Nguyen left her job with the State Department and has shifted all of her attention to Rise, which is the non-profit organization that she created to fight for sexual assault survivors’ rights. After President Obama signed the bill into law at the end of 2008, Amanda and her team went on to pass 19 bills across the country over a period of just 18 months. Everyone rages in a different way, and Amanda’s rage has been extremely productive.

CREDITS:

FRIEDMAN: Going Through It is an original series from MailChimp. And I’m your host, Ann Friedman. I’m buttressed by the structural support of producers Eleanor Kagan, Megan Tan, Gabrielle Lewis, and Claire Tighe. This episode was edited by Joel Lovell, and was scored and mixed by Hannis Brown. Thanks to bro-mo sapian Max Linsky, and everyone at Pineapple Street Media.

TEASER:

FRIEDMAN: On the next episode: what happens when you feel like you’ve lost yourself as a new mom and you don’t know how to find your way back?

REBECCA TRAISTER: It felt like I was seeing the world cleary and what I was seeing cleary was my life was never going to be the same. I felt like I was living in a body that had nothing to do with the person who’d been living in that body up until that moment.

FRIEDMAN: When writer and journalist Rebecca Traister got pregnant with her first child, she quit her day job and signed a book deal to guarantee that she’d have a career to come back to. But picking up where she left off proved to be much, much more difficult than she imagined. Rebecca tell me about how she realized that going through it was the only way out.