Tracy is joined by awarding-winning actress and performer, Danielle Brooks. The pair talk about the surprises in store for Danielle when she gave birth to her first child.
Going Through It - Danielle Brooks
Tracy Clayton: This is Going Through It, a show about women who've found themselves in situations where they said, nope, uh-uh, not today. And they made a decision to make a change and turn something around. I am your host, Tracy Clayton.
Danielle Brooks: Oh man, I envisioned my baby coming naturally. That was the ultimate plan.
Tracy: That is Danielle Brooks, who you might know as Tasha Tastey Jefferson from Netflix's Orange is the New Black and baby, she got a story.
Danielle: I wanted a natural birth. That's how my mama did it and her mama did it. I wanted to not get any epidurals. I didn't want anything planned. No certain time. I just wanted her to come when she was ready to come.
Tracy: Danielle and her fiance, Dennis, had a plan for how they wanted to become parents. They wanted to be old school parents, like their parents and like their parents' parents. But her doctor at the time had different priorities.
Danielle: I felt that she was trying to push me to have the baby at a certain time so that she could deliver my child. And was like, let's schedule it, you know. And I was like, no, I don't want to. So then this whole thing came with, like, you might have preeclampsia.
Tracy: Preeclampsia. I had to look that one up. And it's a condition where you get really high blood pressure along with other symptoms during the pregnancy. It's very, very not great. Danielle was confused because she knew that she did not have that.
Danielle: And that went on for a while. And then she started handing me articles about like, why it's good to deliver at 39 weeks. And I was like, I don't want to deliver at 39 weeks. I want to deliver when this baby want to come.
Tracy: This started to stress her out. But then she found out why the doctor wanted her to deliver early.
Danielle: Being 100, it was her birthday party that she was having out of town and she wanted to deliver the baby before that happened.
Tracy: What? The nerve! The absolute nerve.
Danielle: Luckily, I stood my ground with what I wanted and ignored the preeclampsia whole ordeal, which is a serious thing.
Tracy: This all made Danielle determined to have her baby the natural way, just like her mama had done, just like her grandmama had done. She started exploring doulas. She specifically wanted a Black doula. A doula is someone who could advocate for her when she wasn't able to in these doctors appointments. She found one and she finally felt like she had this thing under control.
Danielle: I thought everything was fine and the doctor's like, you only dilated two centimeters and you have to get to 10. And I was like, I've been in labor for like eight, nine hours. What you talking about? And then all of a sudden, like three minutes later, she looks at this monitor and she starts calling people in, but not telling me why. And before I knew it, it was literally 10 people in a room with them throwing an oxygen mask on my face and IV in arm. And they're just like, stay calm, stay calm. Like, what you mean stay calm? So I'm looking at my doula. I'm looking at my fiancee. I'm like, what is going on? And they looking at the monitor. And she finally tells me, she's like, the baby's heart rate has dropped.
Tracy: Just like that, in a matter of minutes, the doctors told Danielle that her baby was struggling to breathe. They also thought she might have to have a C-section to save the baby.
Danielle: This moment in my life, having a child definitely was one of those moments where like, nah, mama knows best. And I knew it was right for us. You and your child are -- you have to communicate with each other on what's best. And like listening to your body and listening to the way that your child is moving in and -- and moving in your body kind of will tell you the steps to take. And that's what I felt like I -- because when when she was inside me and it was time to give birth and they're saying that her heart rate had dropped, she's saying, I can't do this, Ma. And I'm saying, okay baby, that's the dance we taking. We need someone else to take a step and help us take a step. Let's do that.
Tracy: Sometimes we can have it all planned out and then everything just goes out the window as soon as life starts throwing us curveballs. In this moment, Danielle realized that flexibility was key. And she says she owes all of that to her baby, Freeya. Whoa baby, this is Going Through It.
Tracy: Okay. Do you think that this was your first test as a new mom?
Danielle: Yes, I think this was my first test as a mother. The whole nine months, was a test? [laughs].
Danielle: It was a test in, you know, starting a family and the sacrifices that it will take to be a mother. I was learning really early in jobs that I wasn't unable to do and being okay with that because I, you know, was a mom now and my body can do certain things and accepting that my body can do certain things. Or saying, you know what? Actually, my body can do this Shakespeare in the park and be out here in the woods until I'm five months pregnant. I can do that. You know, I always thought about Audra McDonald's doing Shuffle Along seven months pregnant. I said, I could do that.
Tracy: So congratulations on creating a child. I know you didn't do it by yourself but [laughter] you're the one who, like, basically made the heart. You've made lungs and kidneys --
Danielle: [crosstalk] Yes I did! Thank you.
Tracy: [crosstalk] I can't believe that women do that.
Danielle: [crosstalk] I -- girl I can't either.
Tracy: [crosstalk] It's amazing! Congratulations.
Danielle: Thank you.
Tracy: Why was it important to continue to work on your career while you were pregnant?
Danielle: Whew! Because I can't not work on my career. I love to work. [laughter] I do. I love to do what I do. I love acting. I love being on stage or being on a set. Like that's -- it keeps me going, my heart beating. I could not not work. Yeah.
Tracy: So was there ever a moment where you were like, oh, maybe I'll work or maybe I won't? Or were alway just like, alright --.
Danielle: I wanted to just push the limit.
Danielle: I think that's always been my style. You know, whether I was pregnant or not. You know, doing Color Purple and Orange is the New Black at the same time. And now having the challenge of being a mother and trying to work at the same time. Like, I've always liked the challenge of like how far as a woman can I go?
Danielle: And getting to do Shakespeare while I was five months pregnant was really cool.
Tracy: Yeah. So I know that work is hard. Generally. And I know that sometimes when you're working harder, you push yourself like it's easy to burn out if you're not careful. So did having this life inside of you as you were working, did it force you to think more about, like, taking care of yourself and pacing yourself? Like, how did, how did working while you're pregnant -- I mean, it sounds like a silly question. How did it differ than not being pregnant -- but do you know what I mean?
Danielle: [crosstalk] Yeah, it definitely differs. In, in most -- from most ways, actually it benefited me a lot. Because on one end you -- like first of all, when it comes to theater, any any kind of acting, it really doesn't matter, but specifically theater. I'm a very physical actor. Even in this, I was rolling and doing cart -- trying to do rolls and --.
Danielle: All this stuff.
Tracy: [crosstalk] With the baby in there?
Danielle: With the baby in my stomach, on the floor, at the Delacorte, rolling around. I love --.
Tracy: [crosstalk] I know your baby was like, girl, what are you doing out there?
Danielle: [crosstalk] I know, I had to slow down a little bit. I love being a physical actor, but I had to pull back. And I had to make sure that I was taking care of myself. But on a deeper level, when I was doing my last theater job, I had so much anxiety. So much like -- being, you know, I had given -- put so much pressure on myself being on Broadway, this thing that I had idolized and wanted to do for so long. I finally was getting that opportunity, getting Tony nominated and this Grammy nomination. I was like feeling like a fraud. I was like, oh my God. So I had a lot of anxiety with that. Worked through it --.
Tracy: [crosstalk] Feeling like a fraud for what?
Danielle: Because I was like, I don’t want these people to think I was this good. And now I, you know, I'm that damn good. But it's, it's hard. I was like, I can't believe! Like, this is my first Broadway show and I have a nomination. This is amazing! And there's twelve hundred people watching you and you're playing the role that Oprah played. It's just a lot of pressure. But, you know, when you have a child growing in your body, it did not matter that I had now eighteen hundred people looking at me every night. And I was the lead this time. It didn't matter. I felt so much freedom.
Danielle: I felt so free. I couldn't do no wrong. I -- didn't matter if I messed up a line, fell on my butt. I didn't care. ‘Cause I was growing a life and nothing could beat them.
Danielle: Like there's -- It didn't matter. Like, okay, I flubbed this line. Like I'm growing lungs right now. Y'all don't even know it. Like so --
Tracy: [crosstalk] [laughs] Right.
Danielle: Back back, okay? And so it just reminded me, like, life doesn't have to be that deep all the time. Like, enjoy it, enjoy this moment and like don't take it too serious all the time.
Tracy: Wow. What do you tell that voice inside your head -- or what would you say to a woman who was having a voice inside her head, that's just like, you know, like you need to have a natural childbirth, otherwise you're failing as a parent. You need to do things the good old fashioned way, you need to breastfeed otherwise your child wouldn't be as smart and you're being selfish. Like, what do you say to a woman who has all this conflict in her head between what she wants and what the world tells her she should want?
Danielle: There is no right or wrong way to do this thing. And you're going to get so much advice. But like, F of the advice take what you want, then that works for you and leave the rest and do it your way. You going to still raise an amazing human being. Like the funny thing is, I was someone who's like -- I wanted to breastfeed, had a lot of trouble breastfeeding in the beginning. Almost gave up on breastfeeding. And [laughs] my mom -- I was like, ma! Which, this is the southern private folks but Imma put herself on blast. She'll be alright. She'll be alright [laughter] Love you mommy. This is going to help somebody's. So I'm like, Ma. I'm having trouble breastfeeding. Like, What was your experience? And she's like, Dani, I actually had trouble breastfeeding, too. You only got breastfeed for about a week. [laughter] I was like, I wish you would have told me that! Like if you woulda told me, I would not have been going through all of this? You know what I'm saying?
Tracy: [laughs] Right.
Danielle: And I was fine! Like, was fine! Do you!
Tracy: [crosstalk] Right. Grew up nice and healthy. Got a job. [laughs]
Danielle: [crosstalk] Yeah -- Very healthy, you know. So do it your way.
Tracy: That is funny.
Tracy: What is something that people don't tell you about childbirth that you wish they woulda tell you?
Danielle: Postpartum -- people don't talk about the pain of breastfeeding --.
Tracy: Oh dear.
Danielle: Getting used to that. It's more so the after effect. It's been challenging.
Danielle: It's been hard. Physically, mentally, emotionally on a lot of different levels. It's been hard to get back. You know, physically, externally it’s this challenge. I mean, like I'm not in the same body and on one end, you have to kind of allow yourself to mourn the person that you've known of yourself. That 29 year old Dani that was free and like, you know, a voice of the curves and all this stuff. I'm mourning her.
Tracy: [crosstalk] Oh.
Danielle: And it's not that she's not -- like it's not that parts of her can't still exist. But I will never be that same Danielle. And that's okay. And I'm getting to learn that that's okay. And create this other part of myself that is like learning to blossom and bloom and be like this lively, beautiful being. I'm learning how to do that.
Tracy: Yeah. Is that a thing that you had to learn, that those things are okay? Because like, I feel like --- I don't know, it's hard to complain, quote unquote complain or vent or just talk about like how you really feel sometimes, without somebody being like, well, other people have it much worse. You should be blessed. And I feel like with motherhood, you know, it would be like, oh but it's such a blessing. It's such a joy. Like, how did you learn to be like, it's okay if I don't like this today. [laughter] You know?
Tracy: Yeah, I hear you. I hear you. I feel like for the beginning stages I was like, you know what, I'm very much what you're describing. There's so much to be grateful for, right. And like I've always been in this mindset of like speaking of your life, you know, what you say really does affect your inner being. And like, but then there's sometimes you just can't control how you feel.
Tracy: [crosstalk] Listen -- Yeah.
Danielle: And to acknowledge it. That was my first step, was to acknowledge that I'm feeling a bit depressed and I don't like it.
Danielle: And so to also know, like, I'm not alone. So sometimes -- I talk about it.
Danielle: You know, I'd rather talk about it than sit here and try to like put on a happy face all the time when I'm really feeling like broken.
Tracy: Mhmm. Whew! Lord.
Danielle: [crosstalk] And how do you, how do you move in your brokenness?
Danielle: Like how do you still not allow your circumstance to weigh you down where you can't function.
Tracy: [crosstalk] Right.
Danielle: You know? And I think for me it's acknowledging it, having my little moment and then giving myself tools to move through it. And so that's where I am. And right now, I'm like, gratitude, making sure that I stay in a place of gratitude, walking, take my baby out in -- for 30 minute walk if I got to. Try not to eat too much chocolate, child. [laughter] Talk, talk, talk, talk, talk it out. Find somebody who's gonna listen to you. Like, [laughter] right. That's really what it is. Even if you gotta pay them to listen to you. Find somebody.
Tracy: That's real.
Danielle: Call your mama --.
Tracy: [crosstalk] Call somebody.
Danielle: [crosstalk] My mama will talk for hours. So calling her and just talk.
Tracy: [crosstalk] I love it.
Danielle: That's what I'm trying to do.
Tracy: Speaking of your mom, what did you learn from the people who raised you?
Danielle: Unconditional love. Unconditional love. My mother, my grandmother and my godmother have all taught me that. Just having somebody, no matter how, you know, as a teenager, how much attitude and how ugly I could have been, you know. And I feel like I just try to do that with Freeya.
Danielle: It's hard having patience with a child. You’re sleep deprived and barely can get in a shower and you forget to eat. And you got to breastfeed and change the bottles, you know, clean the bottles -- all these things that happen. And you just want a second. So I just try to remember, you know, when my mama, I know she gave me unconditional love. I know she played would mean to as was bloodshot red.
Danielle: I'm gonna just keep doing the same thing. And it paid off. Like her sacrifice of that unconditional love paid off for me. And I want that same for her, for Freeya. You know, so that she can stay the happy baby that -- I call her happy baby [laughter] -- That she is.
Tracy: I love it. I love it.
Danielle: That she is.
Tracy: Talk to me about Freeya.
Danielle: Yes, she is a diamond.
Tracy: [crosstalk] Tell me about her personality.
Danielle: She's happy all the time. Like I call her my happy baby, happy baby. She smiles at everybody.
Tracy: She looks happy.
Danielle: She is a mama's girl right now. Like she's under her mom. She's at that point, she's three and a half months. When she's at that point where it's like, she doesn't reach for me if she's in someone's arms but she will cry and like, follow me around the room.
Tracy: [crosstalk] Oh! She be like, I see her! I see her over there!
Danielle: [crosstalk] Yeah, she's --.
Tracy: [crosstalk] I don't have the motor skills yet but y'all know.
Danielle: [crosstalk] Right, right. I think she has a good level of discernment too.
Danielle: Like, I just always like who's she going to cry with. The people she cries with are the ones I'm always like, mhmm.
Danielle: I was a little questionable about you anyway. [laughs]
Tracy: Babies know.
Danielle: They do know.
Tracy: Babies and pets know. It's like they can see like the true essence of who you are --.
Danielle: [crosstalk] They do.
Tracy: And if they not feeling it, m-mm. [laughs]
Danielle: I know, right? I know.
Tracy: Talk to me about getting a nanny. I don't know many Black women who have nannies. I know I didn't have one. I had my mother, my grandmother similar to you. And I feel like there is this idea or this misconception that we don't need help or that asking for outside help, especially when it comes to raising our kids as women who have been seen as like caretakers of the world -- but of our kids plus white people's kids. You know, like how did you push through the idea that, like, this is radical, this is wrong. It should be you with your baby because that's how it's always been, you know?
Danielle: To be honest, I didn't want a nanny.
Danielle: I didn't want one. I wanted to go old school and like do it how my mom did.
Tracy: [crosstalk] Do all that.
Danielle: And try to be superwoman. And --.
Danielle: But the crazy thing about it, Tracy, is I feel like more so other people put on you that you should be superwoman.
Danielle: I feel more pressure from the outside world, from honest people, being like you can, you know, wash the dishes and do the clothes and watch the baby and work too.
Danielle: You can do all that and cook. Right?
Tracy: Uh huh.
Danielle: You got this!
Tracy: It's just like mama did it, grandma did it.
Danielle: [crosstalk] Yes!
Tracy: [crosstalk] So you can do it too. Yeah.
Danielle: [crosstalk] And people just expect that you can do it and --.
Tracy: [crosstalk] That's wild.
Danielle: It is wild. And I don't understand how they did it, especially my great grandmother had seven, eight kids.
Danielle: Yeah. It's a lot!
Tracy: No nannies, I'm assuming. [laughs]
Danielle: [crosstalk] No nannies -- heck no. The nannies was the oldest child.
Danielle: You know?
Danielle: So it blows my mind, first of all. So much respect to the generations of women who held it down and definitely had way more than two kids and like --.
Danielle: Were really running their household. Like shout out to them.
Danielle: But there is nothing wrong with getting that extra help as Black women. We need that extra help.
Tracy: So the, the old school way that you were talking about parenting, like doing everything yourself. How and when did those ideas shift for you? When were you like okay, like it's -- nannies are cool. I can do this. Was there like a particular time or incident that did it?
Danielle: [laughs] Girl, I'm still figuring out!
Tracy: [crosstalk] Oh! I'm sure you didn't say that!
Danielle: Like this, like this segment is about being in the middle of it.
Tracy: [laughs] Wow.
Danielle: Being in the middle of that journey. Like, I'm in the middle of that, you know, of going through it. So I'm figuring that out. I still don't want a nanny. But I know I have to because the only way that I'm going to function is if I do get to work.
Danielle: If I do get to still be Danielle. And do the things that I love to do. And that will service my child, too.
Tracy: Right. You gotta be together and healthy so that --.
Danielle: [crosstalk] You know?
Tracy: [crosstalk] You can keep the child's together and healthy.
Danielle: So I'm, I'm learning to let go and not be the Virgo that I am, [laughs] that is very controlling and likes to do things the way she likes them done. Letting people do them their way, that still work, too.
Tracy: Right, right.
Danielle: So I'm in, I'm in that moment now.
Danielle: Of figuring out why, why am I doing this over here? [laughs]
Tracy: [laughs] I feel like we are all in that moment in some form or fashion. What does Black motherhood mean to you?
Danielle: It's almost like the tree. It's almost like a big ol' oak tree, is how I look at motherhood. Like it starts from us, you know, like hundreds of hundred -- when you look at those big oak trees and like all those roots and how grounded they are and how we just can't live without them, I just feel like that's what Black motherhood is. It's the source. It's like the richness that that tree has, the history that that tree carries, the layers that the tree carries. And it's what makes everything move and, you know, nature. It's the foundation. So I guess I look at Black mothers like the strong oak trees that we are.
Tracy: [crosstalk] That's beautiful.
Danielle: That can't be knocked down. I think that's what I would say.
Tracy: That was so -- you know, you get some snaps for that.
Danielle: I do.
Tracy: When I think about like motherhood and like, do I want to have a child? That's what I want to be a part of. You know, because, I mean, like, I was brought up by some amazing oak trees and I would love to be able to pass on all of the great things that I got to my own kids.
Tracy: So [laughter] this is, this is no longer about me. This is now about my friend Stacy, right?
Danielle: Okay? [laughs]
Tracy: Stacy [laughs] -- remember Stacy is not Tracy at all. Was complete coincidence.
Danielle: [crosstalk] Okay. Tell me about Stacy.
Tracy: We couldn't believe our similarities in name either. So --
Danielle: That's hilarious.
Tracy: Stacy grew up thinking that she wanted kids because she was supposed to want kids. Right? Like all the movies and the TV and everything. It's just like woman, baby, happiness. And growing up around me, like all the Black women -- I -- around Stacy [laughter] now -- growing up around, Stacy, was women who were doing the same thing. [laughs] She feels like the world is just so much in that having to be responsible for a baby in a world where there are murderers and terrible presidents and racism that may or may not ever go away. When she thinks about that is like, I -- she doesn't know if she could handle that stress.
Tracy: What would you say to my friend Stacy, who was not me.
Danielle: Oooh, Stacy. Tracy. [laughter].
Tracy: You got me!
Danielle: I'ma tell Stacy -- I'ma tell Tracy about -- to tell Stacy this.
Tracy: Okay. [laughs]
Danielle: I felt the same way. First of all, you're not alone in that feeling. You shouldn't feel bad about feeling that way. I felt that same way. And even having her watching the news is, is intensified.
Tracy: Oh god.
Danielle: But one thing that I can say now that I am on the other side of it, is I feel like there's this huge possibility that she can be someone who adds so much to this world. Like she can be that Michelle Obama. You know what I'm saying? She can be that Tracy. She can be that, Danielle.
Tracy: [crosstalk] Okay.
Danielle: She really can be that person that can really change that thing that scares you so much. And that excites me. Is how can I raise -- like Stacy said, these women that have come in her life before her mother, her grandmother that raised her, what they instilled in her, you can now instill in this child.
Danielle: And so that is what comforts me at night, is knowing that the way I'm raising her is going to make this place a better place.
Danielle: Or at least her world, a better world. So.
Tracy: I bet, I bet Stacy has not thought about it that way. [laughs] Can't wait to tell her that. [laughs] Thank you for that advice.
Tracy: Well, this has been a fantastic conversation, not just for me --.
Danielle: [crosstalk] Thank you.
Tracy: But also my friend Stacy will benefit from it a lot as well. And I'm sure that everyone listening feels a little more seen because I do. And again, I don't even have any kids. So this was fantastic.
Danielle: Thank you.
Tracy: Next time, bring the baby if you'd like. They -- babies like me after a little while. They gotta warm up to me but --.
Danielle: [crosstalk] Okay.
Tracy: I think me and Freeya would get along. So [laughs]
Danielle: I think you -- she would love you. I really do.
Tracy: Aww, well Ms. Danielle Brooks, thank you so much for your time. Please come back anytime.
Danielle: Thank you for having me. Finally!
Danielle: Going Through It.
Tracy: Going Through It. We got through it.
Danielle: [crosstalk] We did. [laughs]
Tracy: We got through Going Though It. [laughs].
Danielle: We got through it.
Tracy: I loved talking to Danielle about motherhood so much because of how open she was and how generous she was with her experience, her information, because motherhood is not always easy to talk about for everybody, especially in this economy, child. You got pandemics and student loans and TikTok. What even is that? I'm not completely sure. I don't understand a lot of things, [laughs] but this is all stuff that would definitely affect my imaginary child. And so me and my homegirls gathered over some good food and some good drinks and we talked about the types of mothers we have and the types of mothers that we hope to be, if at all.
Friend: Alright, well cheers everybody!
Friend: Cheers! Cheers!
Tracy: Cheers to technology.
Tracy: Do you all want one to be moms one day?
Friend: I'm open, but it's not like on my vision board. You know what I mean? I think it's a lot of work. It's a thankless job. And I want a little bit of credit for things I do in life. So the jury is still out. The jury is still out. [laughs]
Friend: Yeah, I remember what I was like as a child and teenager. [laughs]
Tracy: Oh, Lord. Was it that bad?
Friend: No comment. [laughter]
Trent: I absolutely want to be a mom one day. But I think I'm gonna be an old mom. Like, I'll be like that, that GIF of like that old guy with his cane in the three piece suit at the graduation. [laughter] That's gonna be me.
Trent: Like, I feel like people just like to shame women no matter what. Like the fact that people -- like my best friend, she doesn't want to have children. And I'm like, that's good that you know that. So that you're not messing up a child.
Trent: And or like if you do want to have a kid, like, too young, like they shame that. Or like even if like me -- even me telling a lot of people like yeah, I want to have a baby one day, but I think I'll be like older. Like, that's selfish. It's like okay, I can't win. So.
Friend: So I do, I do feel like maybe I have to rethink it because like growing up as a queer kid, it was like that wasn't even on my radar. Like the possibility of being a parent. Like it's not something I ever saw. It's just like assumed. Even my mom, like, has talked to me about how she just assumed, like -- well I mourned my future grandchild. But it's like, it just wasn't something that was out there. Now that I know that it's possible, I could rethink it. But also, I really love having my whole paycheck to myself. It's amazing.
Tracy: Oh my gosh. I don't even have a puppy. I'm just like, it's going to die because I'm irresponsible and then --.
Friend: No, Tracy! [laughs]
Tracy: Animal CPS is gonna come lock me up.
Tracy: So I'm not going to get a kid first!
Tracy: Thank you so, so much for tuning in. I enjoy your company so, so much. So thank you. Going Through It is an original podcast created in partnership with MailChimp and Pineapple Street Studios. Executive producers for Going Through It are Jenna Weiss-Berman, Max Linsky and Agerenesh Ashagre. Shout out to the Producers of Going Through It. Our Lead Producer is Josh Gwynn, production by Jess Jupiter and Emmanuel Happsis, with production support by Janelle Anderson and Alexis Moore. Our editor is the original funky diva, Miss Leila Day. Also, thanks to all the voices of the folks that you heard sound off in this episode. Let's hear those names.
Tracy: And their moms!
Tracy: Our original music is Daoud Anthony and our engineer is Hannis Brown. Special thanks to Eleanor Kagan for being the alpha and the originator of this entire party. Stay in touch. Find me on Twitter and Instagram @BrokeyMcPoverty. Tell all of your friends about the show and maybe even three enemies, just thinking about it. Empathy is the new -- it's the new thing that the kids are doing. Make sure to rate and subscribe to Going Through It on Apple podcast, Spotify and wherever free podcasts are sold. And that's our show. We'll see you next week. Goodbye.
Listen as 14 talented women tell the story about pivotal moments in their lives when they had to decide whether to quit or keep going. The new season, hosted by Tracy Clayton, is out now.
Listen as 14 talented women tell the story about pivotal moments in their lives when they had to decide whether to quit or keep going. The new season, hosted by Tracy Clayton, is out now.
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