The Jump

Big Boi: Basically, you got to make the best out of every moment. You know what I mean? We were trying to really just identifying ourselves on that record and give us a little backstory on how we came up, and for people to identify what we were saying and take that and be motivated to do something better in their own lives, that's dope, man.

Shirley: There are few people on this earth like Big Boi. Since day one, his impact on the trajectory of hip hop has been immense and the man is not even close to being done. It's not easy to getting time alone with him, but when I was finally able to pull him away from the 20 different projects he's working on, he was worth every single delightful minute.

Shirley: The Jump is a podcast where I, Shirley Ann Manson, sit down with musicians and talk about the one song that changed everything.

Shirley: Hi, Big Boi. This is Shirley Ann Manson. I'm a Scottish redhead. Have you ever spoken to a Scottish red head before?

Big Boi: A Scottish redhead? I'm not too sure about that.

Shirley: I've been nervous all day because speaking to you is a big thrill for me, so thank you for coming to the mic.

Big Boi: Oh, absolutely.

Shirley: I really appreciate your time. I know that you're a busy man. Thank you so Much.

Big Boi: Anytime.

Shirley: Anytime?

Big Boi: Yeah, anytime you need me. Shirley: Can I quote you on that?

Big Boi: Yeah.

Shirley: We are talking about a moment in your career where everything changed for you and everything slotted together and you found your rhythm.

Big Boi: Okay.

Shirley: You've sold 25 million records, which to me is literally mind boggling. You've had 25 years of success as a rapper.

Big Boi: Yeah.

Shirley: You've been a pop star, a rapper, an actor. You're a dad, you're a dog breeder. I don't know. Somebody told me you breed owls. Is this true?

Big Boi: Yes, yes, yes. Absolutely.

Shirley: They broke the mold when you came out of the womb, let's put it that way.

Big Boi: Pretty much.

Shirley: I wanted to start basically by asking you, did you go to a stage school, a theatrical school?

Big Boi: No. It was a school for the performing arts.

Shirley: That's where you met Andre 3000?

Big Boi: Absolutely. Shirley: Wow.

Big Boi: In 10th grade in high school.

Shirley: So in the midst of this, how did you find your instrument?

Big Boi: From the time when I was smaller, my whole family was into music. My grandmother, my father's mom, was actually in a singing group, which I later found out after my career started. But when I was real little, she used to send us to the record store to buy her records every week. We would buy everything from Temptations to Bob Marley and Patti LaBelle and The Isley Brothers and all types of soul music. She would wear the records in the ground that week, so every week there would be a new song, and that sparked my love of music. After that, my mother's brother, who was the weirdo in the family, Uncle Russell.

Shirley: One of the weirdos.

Big Boi: Yeah. One of them. He was into everything from Kate Bush and the Police and Genesis and the Beatles and everything that was outside of soul music. So, my musical taste started really young. You know what I mean? I dug a lot of it. Two of my favorite artists, number one, I say one A and one B, of all time is Bob Marley and Kate Bush. Then number two would be NWA.

Shirley: Wow. Incredible education.

Big Boi: Yeah. I guess that was God's way of putting me on a path to finding my gift, to see what I was put here on earth to do. By the time I moved to Atlanta permanently, I met my partner and it was just destiny and fate. That's how it was written in the books. Music is my life. Big Boi: I love making music to this day. I'm in the studio recording right now. Right now, making music is recreational. I do it because that's what I love to do. It's like a plant with sunlight, if I don't hear music for a day or so, I get down. You know what I mean?

Shirley: Do you think that obsessive love for what sounds like all different types of music is one of the reasons why you have managed to navigate decades, literally, of shifting landscapes in music? It's not easy to maintain a grasp at the top level that you have. That's so unusual, no?

Big Boi: Yeah, that's exactly right. I'm a music guy, you know what I mean? I love music. I love to create and when you tap into different veins of sound, that brings excitement to me. So it's almost like I'm a gold miner looking for gold. You know what I mean? Whether we come in the studio and we come up with songs or if we just come in the studio and we just vibe and have social commentary, everything goes into the music. Yeah.

Shirley: Do you play other instruments or is basically your voice the main instrument?

Big Boi: Yeah, I play keys. I'm a producer as well. I program drums and things like that. Me and my partner started producing on the ATLiens album.

Shirley: Right.

Big Boi: With songs like Elevators and the title track, ATLiens. Then from there, we went on to produce on every record after Southernplayalistic.

Shirley: Right.

Big Boi: A lot of people don't know that.

Shirley: Did you ever play in choir or orchestra or band at school? Big Boi: I was in a church choir when I was small. Yeah. Went to Sunday school and went to church. My great grandparents were members of Port Wentworth Baptist Church in Savannah and that was a big part of my upbringing was coming up in the church. You know what I mean? So I have a strong faith and a strong connection with the higher power is known as God. I'm just doing my work right here on earth.

Shirley: I grew up much like you in a Christian family. Music has always played that bridge for me. I don't really understand the Bible. It confuses me a little, but I've always believed in the tenants of religion, I guess. Music has always felt like Godliness to me in a funny way. Does that play that role in your life?

Big Boi: Yeah, actually music is, the vibrations are what moves the soul. You know what I mean? It's all about vibrations from the beat until the lyrics actually activate the brain to think. It's just something that changes people's lives. Music can, it can make you cry, it can make you laugh, it can make you party, and it might be something that you want to make love and make kids to, like my daughter. Yeah, yeah, yeah. My daughter, it was a lot of Sade playing and Isley Brothers when my daughter was conceived, you know what I mean? So yeah, it's a part of life.

Shirley: I'm very curious as to why you picked Git Up, Git Out as your song that you felt speaks for a moment where you found your voice, I guess.

Big Boi: It was on the first album and we were young, man, like 18, 19 years old. We made that record.

Shirley: Wow. Incredible.

         * MUSIC - ​GIT UP, GIT OUT (OUTKAST) ​*

Big Boi: We started touring. People would come up to us and be like, hey man, that song, Git Up, Git Out, changed my life, man. I went and I got off drugs and I got custody of my kids or I dropped out of school and I went back to school and got my GED or I went and got my real estate license. To see people motivated by a song that we made was mind blowing. From here all the way to Europe, and it was just like the microphone is bigger than just being in the studio. You can really enlighten people and also, at the same time, show them how you transitioned to be where you want to be and you can help people through music. That song was a very pivotal record because you begin to take the microphone a little bit more serious than you thought. You know what I'm saying?

Shirley: Sure. But for people that were so young, you were 18, 19, looking back and reading these lyrics, you're incredibly wise. So where did that come from?

Big Boi: I think the wisdom for me, since I was the first nephew, the first grandchild, do you know what I mean? I hung around my aunts and uncles and my grandmother and I was the baby. So everybody took me everywhere they went, you know what I mean? If they went to the store, so I will be around grownups a lot and I was a sponge, so I just soaked up game and I guess it made me wise beyond my years from being around grownups, you know what I mean? Understood the lingo or what they were saying and just how they treated me. They didn't just treat me like a kid. They treated me like I was one of them. You know what I mean? So I thank my family for taking me grocery shopping and to the car wash and fishing with my grandmother and things like that, because it shaped and molded my mind real young. You know what I mean? I saw responsible adults that were hustlers that were all about family.

         * MUSIC - ​GIT UP, GIT OUT (OUTKAST) ​*

Shirley: What's your process when you write?

Big Boi: Well, nowadays a lot comes to me in the car, but back then I didn't have a car. So it was just a lot of times just being around the Dungeon Family members and just sitting around with your pen and your pad. To this day I use the ink pen and the pad. I have all my raps I've ever written. I got the tablets to those songs.

Shirley: Oh my God!

Big Boi: Yeah.

Shirley: That's incredible!

Big Boi: Yeah, I know. So it's like a diary of sorts, you know what I mean?

Shirley: Of course.

Big Boi: I keep it under lock and key, but one thing I started doing a couple of years ago, just so I can explore my writing habits, I would date the paper when I would start it, the date and the time, because sometimes I can write a song in an hour or sometimes it might take a couple of months, you know what I mean?

Big Boi: So I write the start and stop time of when I'm writing. So what I've discovered is that …

Shirley: My God, you're so disciplined! That's incredible.

Big Boi: I know, yeah. I've discovered that I write best during the hours from 2:00 to 7:00 PM, is when my mind is really, really, really flowing. One album that was a nighttime vibe was when I did Speakerboxxx/Love Below, when we did that record. Big Boi: That was more so coming in at 8:00 or 9:00 at night and leaving at 6:00 in the morning, and for a couple of years, I would be in the studio so long to where I would miss the sun for weeks and weeks at a time. So it got so bad that I was …

Shirley: Night shift.

Big Boi: Yeah, I was vitamin D deficient because I'm inside of a dark studio, from the studio to my house and then the bed and it's dark and then you come back outside, it's sunset, and you know what I mean? So I switched it up a little bit so I can get some of that sun beam.

Shirley: Specifically with Git Up, Git Out, how long did it take you to write that song?

Big Boi: I think Git Up, Git Out probably took maybe two days, because you have it down and then you proofread and go over and you change things.

Shirley: Then how long did it hang around for before you recorded it?

Big Boi: The beat came maybe a couple of days before, and we were just like, oh Lord, we've got to get on this, you know what I'm saying?

         * MUSIC - ​GIT UP, GIT OUT (OUTKAST) ​*

Big Boi: Cee-lo Green came in.

Shirley: Did Cee-lo write his own parts? Big Boi: Yeah. Yeah. He wrote his own part. Yeah. Wrote his own part and then he went into the hook. We thought it was part of his verse. He was like, no, that's the hook. It was just so dope, you know what I mean? He was a school mate of ours and for him to come in and put that type of work in and we just all just jumped on it, man, and made it one of those positive songs that's gonna live forever.

         * MUSIC - ​GIT UP, GIT OUT (OUTKAST) ​*

Shirley: How does it work? You play a beat for somebody and you all go off and write on your own and then come back into the studio one night?

Big Boi: We were all just camped out in the studio and Organized Noize was on the production, and they had the beat at first and then the bass player came in. Then when the bass licks got on there, doodle, doodle, do, doooo. Doodle, doodle, do, do,

         * MUSIC - ​GIT UP, GIT OUT (OUTKAST) ​*

Big Boi: That just brought everything out. To me, those vibrations that comes from the chords that play on that bass, the bass brings out the best of me. You know what I mean? So it's a certain way you ride the beat, with it being a slow tempo, it was like, man, you can just eat this thing. So after the bass was laid and Cee-lo got on it, we were just vibing and vibing and just camp out and just spoke our truth on it. It came into fruition.

         * MUSIC - ​GIT UP, GIT OUT (OUTKAST) ​*

Shirley: Did it happen in the one night?

Big Boi: Two days, two days.

Shirley: When you finished it, were you aware that you had gold?

Big Boi: We knew that it was a gem on the album, because the whole album, being a debut record, we're really, really, and always have been into lyricism. You know what I mean? So it was like Cee-lo pushed me to write mine, and from my verse, we had Dre verse, and then you had Big Gipp from the Goodie Mob. So we all fed off of each other's energy and the verses got stronger and stronger as the song went on, man. So it was always, on Southernplayalisticadillacmuzik was a collective effort.

         * MUSIC - ​GIT UP, GIT OUT (OUTKAST) ​*

Shirley: When you hear it today, would you change anything or are you like, holy cow, where did that come from?

Big Boi: Always, holy cow, where did that come from? You know what I mean? As you grow and you evolve and you mature, those are moments in time. I like to say that albums are like time capsules. They captured the essence of your life from the last time the listener heard you to the present time of which you're recording. You know what I mean? So anything, from your personal life to politics to world affairs or anything crazy happened in the studio, you speak on it, you know what I'm saying? That's where you draw the best inspiration from. Big Boi: That's why we are producers and songwriters and we started producing, because we just thought, how dope would it be to create the soundscape to the words of your emotion. You know what I mean? That is the coolest shit ever, man, to make a record and then to write the record and it turns out like a German chocolate cake, like goddamn, it tastes good. Yes, Ma'am!

Shirley: Do you find it easier to write like that now that you're experienced and you've had all your success or do you find your ghosts of your earlier career chomping at your heels?

Big Boi: No.

Shirley: Does that make any sense?

Big Boi: Yeah. Yeah, I know exactly what you're talking about. It's difficult now, having recorded hundreds and hundreds and hundreds of songs, because I never want to sound like I've sounded before. So every song, every rhyme pattern, every lyric has to be different, because anybody can go back and mimic something or sample something and make the same record over and over again. If it ain't broke, don't fix it. But we always into creating new feelings, new vibes, new energy every time. You know what I'm saying? As long as it's honest and it's coming from your spirit, the people will feel it.

Shirley: Yeah, no doubt.

Big Boi: We'd never want it to be a part of what the norm was or going with the norm. Always wanting to do something new, man, and if you don't keep moving and evolving, then it gets stagnant. Then when it gets like that, then that's when I'll stop. You know what I mean? But right now, the creative juices are flowing so good and I'm just now getting to my prime, I feel. Big Boi: I've balanced being an artist and an actor and musician and a producer, along with a husband and a father. Now my kids are going off to college and I've got all this free time. So I can do a lot more now.

Shirley: What do your kids think about your career? It must blow their minds, no?

Big Boi: Yeah.

Shirley: Or is it nothing to them?

Big Boi: No, they love it. They're music lovers. You know what I'm saying? The same way my grandmother and my uncle exposed me to all types of music, my kids had been listening to everything since they've been in the womb, you know what I mean? Now they turn me on music. My daughter's into a lot of the indie electro rock soul music and my sons are into trap music and some of everything. You know what I mean? So they keep me on my toes. From the time they were babies, they'd be my secret A and R's. I would test out records, like Bombs Over Baghdad, and my kids just go crazy. You know what I'm saying? I'll be like, hey, Dre., I played this for Jordan and she couldn't stay out of the car seat. Let's finish this one. You know what I'm saying?

Shirley: Yeah, yeah.

Big Boi: They've been on my team.

Shirley: So you're about to go on tour, correct?

Big Boi: Yes.

Shirley: So can I ask you a really cheeky question? Big Boi: Yep.

Shirley: How many weeks do you have to rehearse to remember all these words? Because it's so much. It's so wordy.

Big Boi: If you stay ready, you don't have to get ready.

         * MUSIC - ​GIT UP, GIT OUT (OUTKAST) ​*

Big Boi: My favorite part of making music is performing, and doing at least maybe a hundred shows a year, it's like riding a bicycle. You know what I mean? When we perform, we sound just like the record. When you're an artist you're supposed to be able to perform live. So the answer to your question is yes, I remember.

Shirley: You said that performing is your favorite part of being a musician.

Big Boi: I love it. To sit at a desk and write a song and envision the crowd singing it, and then to travel to Ireland or France or California or Denver or wherever it is in the world, and to see the people and feel their energies, looking at you in your eyes, singing what you created word for word. There's no better feeling than that. Plus I like to travel and get to know the different cities when I go out. Another thing that expanded our minds as being youngsters were, when we started traveling, and when you go to different cities, you begin to see that the world is bigger than your street or your block or your neighborhood where you come from. You get to dive into different cultures and see how the people live. It just broadens your horizons.

Shirley: What is it that you have not done yet that you'd really want to do? Big Boi: Do a song with Kate Bush. That's it.

Shirley: Oh my God.

Big Boi: I've done it all. I've done it all.

Shirley: Have you tried contacting her?

Big Boi: Yeah. I've contacted, I got her number, we went and had dinner. We sat down, just the two of us, had dinner.

Shirley: Come on!

Big Boi: Yeah. Yeah.

Shirley: You've had dinner with Kate Bush?

Big Boi: Absolutely. She took me …

Shirley: How was that?

Big Boi: It was incredible. It was when we were doing the OutKast 20 tour about five years ago, and she had the ​Before The Dawn​ residency that she was doing. Me, I took my wife …

Shirley: Oh, that's right.

Big Boi: I took my wife and I met her then and then we kept in contact, and then I went back a couple of years later and we had dinner and just talked about music and our kids going to college. She's a beautiful spirit, inside and out, and she's just a very nice person and we're gonna make it happen one day, hopefully, God willing. Shirley: Oh my God. I hope so. I'm praying for you brother.

Big Boi: Yes.

Shirley: Make it happen.

Big Boi: Yeah. Yeah, for sure.

Shirley: Yeah. Listen, thank you for sharing all this with us today. You are spectacular. Thank you so much. I love you.

Big Boi: Thank you so much. I love you too. Sorry about last week. It's all good.

Shirley: Good luck with the tour.

Big Boi: All right now.

Shirley: All right. Take care. Oh, I love him.

                    * MUSIC - ​GIT UP, GIT OUT (OUTKAST) ​*

Shirley: Next week on The Jump, Esperanza Spalding.

Esperanza Spalding: I left my manager. I left my agent. Everybody was mad at me. I bought a Volkswagen beetle. I was like, I don't know what's going on. I just need to play!

Shirley: The Jump is an original series from MailChimp and I'm your host, Shirley Manson. It's produced in partnership with Little Everywhere, executive produced by Dan Gallucci, Jane Marie, and Hrishikesh Hirway. Original music composed by Hrishikesh Hirway.